Human Rights Dialogue

Ongoing Comments

Advertising to Gays
"Jaguar and Land Rover stop advertising in gay publications" was the headline in a report which went on to say that two gay/human rights groups charged Ford Motor Company with caving in to demands by the American Family Association, which had been promoting a boycott of Ford vehicles. -- Dec 2005

Britain recognizes civil partnerships
The recent decision to approve "civil partnerships" between gay people has lead, in Britain, to the suggestion that similar privileges should be extended to "elderly friends" -- same sex or not. -- Dec 2005

About Gay Marriage and all that
First, let's recognize that most adherents to a religion consider themselves married after an appropriate ceremony conducted by clergy. For such individuals, getting a license and following any pertinent governmental rules add a legal dimension to what is essentially a moral relationship.

Second, let's agree that government -- at all levels -- should stay out of our bedrooms, but government properly puts in place certain legal requirements to assure procedural fairness about everything from child care through insurance benefits to estate settlement. So, for example, Catholics  who marry "outside the church" at a chapel in Las Vegas have the same legal protection as those who are married by a priest with a matrimonial mass.

Third, add my libertarian mindset and -- despite any moral uneasiness I might feel -- I think a gay couple who are willing to bind themselves legally to all duties and responsibilities inherent in a marriage should have the right to formalize that relationship. So should any couple, especially seniors, same sex or not

But let's not call such a legal relationship a "marriage." 
Call it whatever else you want:gay union, civil union, domestic partnership.

"Marriage" has such a universally accepted meaning that a new term would have to be invented to identify a legal/moral relationship between a man and a woman. Claiming discrimination, the gblt community would then try to co-opt the new term.

I oppose any attempt to amend constitutions to ban domestic partnerships, but I, we, society don't owe the gay and lesbian community the power to diminish the clear meaning of "marriage." Aug 2003

Turkey moves to de-stigmatize homosexuality
One of the cultural adjustments Turkey is making to qualify for inclusion in the European Union is, contrary to Muslim dogma, to identify  homosexuality as an "exercise of free will," and to state that being a homosexual does not mean that a person is "immoral."

Whether this liberal movement will stand in the Muslim world is being watched both by those who support it and by those who oppose it. -- Nov 2005

 

Also on this page

Advertising to Gays

Britain recognizes civil partnerships

Gay Marriage

Turkey make liberal move


The Year 2000 Debate preceding the vote on the Human Rights Ordinance included:

The Glossary

The YES argument

The NO argument

VersagiVoice observations & comments

 

About the Human Rights Ordinance
originally published April 2000

Has everything already been said?
Some activists in the rights ordinance dialogue argue that any further discussion is redundant, that most people have heard what needs to be said. Others see a need for more education before citizens can vote knowledgeably.

Most of the straights with whom I have discussed these matters, for example, are unaware of the many voices within the gay community, ranging from the in-your-face Triangle Foundation through the moderate national legislation focus of the Human Rights Campaign to the prayerful proclamation of Affirmation, a group of Mormon gays.

The glossary
There are diverse interests within the gay community, even as they fight for the same goal -- civil rights, as gays see them. "GLBT" has become the acronym to cover them all: Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, and  Transsexuals. (To which the Triangle Foundation seems to be adding "Intersexual.")

In what follows, I adopt ROAR's Rick Wallace's suggestion to use "straight" and "gay." Even as he and I agreed to use that terminology, we recognized that "straight" means "square" or "nerdy" to some, so it is possible for a person to be a "straight gay!"

The organizations
Locally, the contending organizations do not reveal membership numbers. One reason is that "movement groups" like those engaged in the rights debate usually have dozens, perhaps scores, of followers or supporters, rather than actual members, who can be called out to a rally or to a public hearing. Certainly that is true of most neighborhood associations and of my public battle against mandatory historic designation. So it is understandable that some wonder whether there's anyone else out there besides Rick Wallace or Gary Glenn or Frank Versagi.

Locally, we have:
Royal Oak Association for Rights (ROAR)
Royal Oak Citizens Voting "No" (CVNO)

Each of these groups has been offered a parallel column, below, to present its position. The parallel columns will be followed by my observations and comments.

Among "outsiders" engaged in the dialogue are:
American Family Association of Michigan (AFA)
Triangle Foundation

Vote "Yes"

The Royal Oak Association for Rights (ROAR) describes itself as "a group of politically active gay and straight citizens who support issues and candidates that preserve our community's values, enhance its reputation, and protect all of its citizens and visitors from discrimination." ROAR is not formally affiliated with any state or national group, although ROAR may be receiving help from an organization called Michigan Equality.

Currently, ROAR's chief spokesman is Rick Wallace, a software-focused entrepreneur who has lived in Royal Oak for six years. Wallace and I, who had conversed previously at ROAR's exhibit during the Chamber of Commerce's latest garage sale, began this interview-like conversation by discussing the many labels used to refer to homosexuals, such as gay, lesbian, dyke, fag, queer.

Someone else at our table suggested that some of the terms which are considered offensive when used by straights are interpreted differently within the gay, lesbian, bisexual, transsexual community (glbt).

"I am most comfortable using 'gay' and 'straight,'" Wallace said, to identify the contending communities.

With semantics clarified, Wallace focused on the proposed Royal Oak Human Rights Ordinance. "It is not a hate crime ordinance," he said, "there is no criminal component in the language."

Wallace maintains that gays have experienced "derision and discrimination" in Royal Oak when seeking housing and employment. In public comments before the City Commission he said there is "significant anti-gay prejudice in Royal Oak." It remains difficult to document such harassment, he says, for a variety of reasons -- the fear of "outing" and further discrimination and the lack of a legal remedy which makes complaining virtually meaningless. Hence the need for the ordinance, because sexual orientation is not covered by existing federal or state laws or legislation.

 Gays don't expect the ordinance to change people's hearts, Wallace acknowledges, but that is not the point. The point is "to eliminate public conduct that can take away an individual's home or livelihood based on another's prejudice."

Concerning hurtful, even if less serious harassment, Wallace says the repeated stealing of the decorator flag from a well-known lesbian's house "is the kind of thing about which I spoke recently with [new Chief of Police] Quisenberry." The ROAR spokesman said the conversation with the Police Chief went well.

Joining the interview/conversation at Starbuck's were Royal Oak City Commissioner Marie Donigan, State Representative David Woodward, and Barry Shulman, partner-owner of Decades, a retailer of nostalgic artifacts.

Shulman mentioned personal experiences of being called "fag" and of anti-gay bias ranging over the years. When I challenged, "Do you wear a badge saying 'I am gay'?" he quietly recounted an instance in which a sound financial transactioin was aborted after the person involved learned that Shulman and his partner lived together.

Shulman, Donigan, and Woodward share Wallace's disapproval of what they all perceive as an abrogation of responsibility  demonstrated by the majority of the City Commission. Wallace stated his position best in public comments before the Commission. Reacting to the decision at that time to schedule a non-binding advisory vote on the proposed rights ordinance, he said, "If [the Commission] is utterly incapable of acting on a non-discrimination ordinance without counting votes, the quicker, cheaper and more accurate approach . . . would be to take a poll. They could even include a tear-off-and-return section in Insight [the City-published newsletter] asking residents to tell them how to vote on complex issues."

When I suggested the fundamental debate comes down to morality on one side and civil rights on the other, the ROAR leader responded, "We consider our position moral, and I believe those who argue agaisnt such protection are advocating an immoral position."

I mentioned what I perceive as a lack of documentation of extensive anti-gay prejudice in Royal Oak. I pointed to the Triangle Foundation's failure to produce any of the hundreds of cases of discrimination and harassment the group claims to have in its files. Wallace maintained that the Triangle Foundation does not speak on behalf of ROAR and that ROAR should not be asked to elaborate on their statements. Besides, "even if there are only a few documented cases, that's still too many."

All four of my interlocutors expressed two concerns about the Commission's decision to place the Fire Department millage vote on the May 15 ballot with the rights ordinance. First, there are already activists out there who are attempting to simplify voting with slogans like "Vote NO on May 15th." Second is a concern that so few citizens will vote in the May 15 election that an unrepresentative minority will determine the outcome. Commissioner Donigan said, "It's a foot race to see how many people each side can get to the polls. If this vote is supposed to express the will of the community, a few thousand votes by people who go to the polls won't accomplish that."

Asked if ROAR intends to seek a referendum if the vote turns out unfavorable, Wallace said no.

Vote "No"

Royal Oak Citizens Voting "No" to Special Rights Discrimination (CVNO) is the leading local group of activists opposed to Proposal 2, according to Royal Oak resident and spokesperson Jessica Taubert, a local elementary school teacher. The group sees the ordinance as granting "special protected class status" to individuals who engage in homosexual behavior and agrees with an analysis developed by the American Family Association of Michigan, which says the ordinance will:

* "Discriminate against youth associations such as the Boy Scouts," citing a threat to sue the City of Detroit by the "homosexual Triangle Foundation," which insists that Detroit's Proposal 2-type "gay rights" ordinance requires it to cut all funding or access to city parks for local Scout troops and packs.

* "Discriminate against people of faith. Under threat of a $500 fine and lawsuits, owners of a Christian or Jewish or Muslim book store would be forced to hire individuals who are openly involved in homosexual behavior, even if such behavior violates the religious convictions of the business's owner and clientele.

* "Discriminate against small business owners. Business owners will face yet another basis on which to be sued, even if their disciplining or failing to hire a particular individual has nothing to do with that individual's private sexual behavior.

* "Legitimize, encourage, and eventually subsidize behavior that (1) violates state criminal law, (2) most people consider wrong or immoral, and (3) dramatically increases its practitioner's risk of life-threatening behavior and premature death."

One can disagree with CVNO's interpretation of the impact of the proposed ordinance, but the group offers specific topics for detailed debate.

And CVNO maintains it is motivated by sincere compassion for individuals involved in homosexual behavior, as well as the potentially discriminatory effects they believe the ordinance will have on the vast majority of citizens who are not. One CVNO member observed, "We are fighting, not homosexuals but the homosexual agenda."

Gary Glenn, president of AFA Michigan, is demonized by some gays. Glenn "is dishonest and lies to people" is the way a spokesman for Detroit-based Triangle Foundation described Glenn in a press interview.

In contrast, Auburn Hills mayor Tom McMillin paints Glenn as "an articulate, well-reasoned voice for our values. McMillin focuses his opposition to the proposed ordinance in the civil/legislative context, saying that the language can be interpreted to "force a mayor to perform a 'civil union ceremony,' just as mayors now perform marriages."

It is such relentless citing of specific concerns which differentiates much of the anti-ordinance rhetoric from the frequent generalizations offered by pro-ordinance spokesmen.

"Straight" concern about the possible impact of the ordinance on the Boy Scouts, for example, is termed a "red herring" by proponents of the ordinance. In contrast, the AFA of Michigan website will direct a reader to specific articles or cases dealing with such issues as the move by some United Way chapters to eliminate support of the Boy Scouts, or homosexual activists' legal claim that ordinances such as Proposal 2 require cities to cut all ties to Scouting. Agree or disagree with the interpretation, the specifics are there.

To return to the religious component in the anti-ordinance drive, McMillin worries that "too many pro-family groups have been basically silent about issues that really require them to take tough strong stands."

Nor is CVNO satisfied with the religious exemption in the ordinance (Article VII, Section 2):  Religious Exemption: The prohibition of Section III shall not apply to a religious institution, or any non-profit institution operated, supervised, or controlled by a religious institution. Article III is concerned with discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations, or government services.

"Study homosexual activists' strategy, and you will find the tactic is to put in a religious exemption, then remove it later," offers AFA Michigan's Glenn. Further, he points out that the exemption does not apply to church-operated for-profit enterprises, such as bookstores, counseling services, or daycares.

Returning to other issues, CVNO wonders aloud whether the concept of "domestic partners" applies strictly to gays or will be expanded to include any two persons of the same or different sex who choose to live together but not to marry.

One issue approached reluctantly by some but with in-your-face relish by others, on both sides, is what Gary Glenn refers to as "what they do." Glenn places homosexual practices in a public health context, pointing out for example, an Oxford University study which found that the life span of college-age men who engage in homosexual behavior will be cut short by up to 20 years compared to the generl male population, and the Center for Disease Control's concern that bisexual men serve as a "bridge" that theatens to extend such consequences to the heterosexual population.

On its part, the Triangle Foundation finds it necessary to discuss penile size and clitoris when addressing transgender issues.

CVNO, like ROAR, intends to use all legitimate and political tactics to bring out the "no"-votes for the May 15 election.

About the Human Rights Ordinance - My observations & comments

The City Commission's decision to place the rights issue on the ballot
We have here a case where the majority of the Commission did the right thing although some suspect for the wrong reason.

In a representative democracy, most public issues are decided with the passive will of the majority after debate by contending minorities or special interests. On those occasions when the majority makes it clear that it is unwilling to leave the decision to the contending minorities, then one way or another the active will of the majority comes into play.

Mayor Cowan properly recognized that the human rights issue is perceived by the public as being more important than an ordinance prohibiting a homeowner from letting grass grow longer than 8 inches.

Placing both the Rights ordinance and the Fire Department millage on the same ballot
Bad decision. I know there are those who are offended by the thought that Royal Oak voters can't distinguish between the two issues, but the Vote no on both advocates and the Vote yes twice people are currently dominating street talk.

Traditional wisdom, among school districts seeking a millage increase, for example, is to lower the volume on public dialogue, the assumption being that most people won't be paying attention and the concerned minority who want the millage to pass will all come out to vote.  Concern about May 15 is that conventional wisdom won't hold, that both the Fire Department millage and the Rights Ordinance are in jeopardy because (a) opponents will get out their no-vote or (2) a broader mass of citizens will come to polls primarily to vote no on the rights ordinance and will keep that frame of mind when they vote on the millage.

It has not been lost on voters of both persuasions that proponents of the rights ordinance fought desperately to keep the issue off the ballot.

The concern that a small voter turnout is unrepresentative of the community
Many who express this concern would willingly accept a vote on the Fire Department millage alone. Indeed, elected officials are often elected after small voter turnouts. Voicing this argument unfortunately lends weight to the suspicion that because only the gay community is vigorously campaigning for the rights ordinance, it must be a gay rights ordinance.

The use of "outsiders"
Defenders of the ordinance label as "outsiders" people like Gary Glenn and his American Family Association of Michigan. Opponents make the same complaint about participation by the Detroit-based Triangle Foundation and gay rights advocates from Lansing and Ann Arbor. To me, this is not an issue. To paraphrase one of the debaters, "Ideas know no geographical boundary.

The fears on each side
Despite what appears to some as an unceasing militancy by the gay community, there remains an almost palpable fear of coming out of the closet. By itself, that such a fear continues to exist seems to confirm the gay community=s contention that anti-gay bias remains real and threatening. A parallel fear on the straight side is of being labeled a bigot if one disagrees with the gay position on any public issue.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on one=s perspective, a phenomenon I have labeled principled backlash is developing. Weary of what seems never-ending demands by groups who depict themselves as perennial victims, individuals who have until recently been quiet middle-of-the-roaders are challenging assertions that to oppose a group's specific proposal is to be anti-that group.

"Human" rights, "Civil" rights, "Gay" rights: which is it?
Stripped to its essence, the position of the gay community is that it is fighting for civil rights.

Stripped to its essence, the dominant element in opposition is religion-based and contends that since no other organized group is advocating the ordinance, it must be a fight for "special" rights, "gay" rights.

Both sides claim the label "human."

Read the ordinance
It's on the City's excellent website and is available at City Hall and at the Library.

Dedicated people tried to develop language which expresses the perceived need and lays out the penalty for violations. The proposed ordinance contains a mass of text devoted to exemptions--obviously in recognition of the fears of such clusters as religious organizations and small businesses.

Only you can decide how well the ordinance supports your pro- or anti- position.

The tone of the debate
This is a tough one, because it is almost impossible to keep the comments at an intellectual level which does not generate strong emotions.

All “movements” – abolition, women’s suffrage, feminism, civil rights – contained activists who thought persuasion is more effective in the long-term than confrontation and activists who preferred confrontation to persuasion.

Because so much of Royal Oak's public dialogue has been less than cordial--ranging from hissing and booing at City Hall to quiet sarcasm to political threats -- straights are surprised and unbelieving when they encounter something like the following on a gay website: We affirm that homosexuality and homosexual relationships can be consistent with and be supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That language appears in the General Charter of Affirmation, a nationally active group of gay and lesbian Mormons.

In contrast are statements from such as the Triangle Foundation calling opposing spokesmen liars.

In between are groups like the Human Rights Campaign, which concentrates on national legislation and which among other things guards against what it sees as unreasonable application of freedom of religion when that freedom discriminates against gay rights.

Also in between, we have Royal Oak's own ROAR whose spokesman, Rick Wallace, does an excellent job of being offended, reasonable, sarcastic, or threatening apparently as he sees the need to adopt one tone or the other.

Religiously motivated individuals, believing that homosexual behavior is sinful, more often seem sad rather than righteous when talking about all this.

The glbt community, having endured so much harassment and discrimination, finds it impossible to believe that one can oppose the proposed ordinance and not be anti-gay.

The website of the American Family Association of Michigan (AFA), although quite clearly opposed to what it sees as special protective rights for gays, presents news articles, studies, legislative battles about which one can make one's own decision. As only one example, the reports about the fiasco when Traverse City seemed to adopt the "gay rainbow" as part of a tourist promotion are there to be read and interpreted.

I have commented that sitting in a room with religiously-focused anti-ordinance people I felt from them more sadness than anger. Disagree as one might, it would be hard to label them a hate group.

But their resource person, AFA's Gary Glenn, is repeatedly demonized as an extremist by some gays and straights.

How pervasive is anti-gay bias in Royal Oak?
The gay community's drive for the rights ordinance is largely based on its claim that there is widespread anti-gay bias in Royal Oak.

Straight Royal Oakers, seeing gays active in business, politics, churches, service clubs, and civic organizations, find that hard to believe.

The gay position was not helped when the Triangle Foundation claimed to have hundreds of documented cases of harassment and produced none. A lesbian served on a Citizens Police Oversight Committee which was unable to find evidence of police harassment of homosexuals after reviewing hundreds of citizen complaints about diverse matters.

For an awkward couple of weeks after one fairly clear incident involving an off-duty policeman, some prominent Royal Oak gays were slow to rally behind those who claim that there is widespread anti-gay bias.

The claim that such incidents prove widespread prejudice has not resonated with the public-at-large, which neither understands nor believes that gays continue to fear retribution if they "make a big deal" out of their individual experiences.

During the scores of conversations, faxes, and email exchanges which went into preparing this report, I encountered attitudes ranging from puzzlement through defensiveness to hostility.  In a few instances, among both gays and straights, the defensiveness became suspicion so intense that it struck me as paranoid. There are gays who adopt the god-like “If you are not with me, you are against me” pose. And there are straights who make it clear that they consider it “unclean” even to interview gays. 

The politics of it all: Democrat versus Republican?
At the national level, both the moderate Human Rights Campaign and the “progressive” (anti-gays would say “aggressive”) National Gay and Lesbian Task Force are unhappy with losing access to Clinton’s White House and having to deal with Bush.

At the local level, it is also true that the Democrat party is generally more gay-friendly than the Republican Party. Because of the huge moral/religious component in the dialogue, though, the political picture gets fuzzy. The majority of Catholics are Democrats, for example, but they consider homosexual behavior sinful. In Royal Oak, there is no doubt that the votes will cross party lines.

Whatever your position – yes, no, maybe – go to your favorite search engine, mine is google, and search for “gay rights” to get a sense of all the pro, con, and neutral information which is out there.

I will vote "no."

I will vote against the Human Rights Ordinance, for two reasons:

First, the gay community has not demonstrated the need for an ordinance in Royal Oak.

Second, my libertarian blood boils when I read the proposed ordinance and find that 12 of its 28 paragraphs, 43% of them, are well-intentioned attempts to assure everyone from religious organizations to age-specific groups that they are exempt. Obviously, there will be others who feel they should be exempt.

More important, elected or appointed officials will make the interpretations about such matters as whether a small business has successfully met "the burden of establishing that the qualification is reasonably necessary ..."

No, thank you.

What do you think?

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