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Coffee Conversation

As a starter, when I asked how the relationship between the department and city hall in his day compared with the tensions existing today, he rather matter-of-factly replied, "Oh, about the same." While describing the issues and the personalities of the time, he said that, as Chief, he had to keep his management role in mind, but it was never possible to move far from the sense of loyalty to his men. Several times, I sensed that he had those dual loyalties in mind as he reminisced. Speaking of one of the chiefs who succeeded him, Nancarrow said, "He had trouble defending his men."

I'll get back to the civic/political contents of our chat, but in the beginning the Chief was obviously more comfortable talking about the physical and material comparisons between then-and-now.

"We had to come to work, and leave the station, wearing dress uniform," he recalled, as he jokingly compared those jacket-and-tie days to today's casual approach to attire. The Rules and Regulations forbade discussing either religion or politics while on duty. Applicants needed a high school diploma, had to be 5-foot-nine, and had to weigh 150 pounds. "I weighed 148, but they let us write in our weight that day so I wrote '152.'"  There was a written exam and an oral exam. The oral exam has been dropped. There was an examination by a doctor and an interview with the city manager. [NOTE: In today's obsession with political correctness, I suspect several of those early requirements are illegal now. -- FJV]

Today two years of post-high school are needed; they must pass a certified firefighter training course; and must achieve certification in Advanced Life Support. Nancarrow says he began training firefighters in Advanced First Aid. That led to the emergence of EMTs (Emergency Medical Technicians), and that led further to today's ALS staffing: two EMTs on every run or response.

We passed quickly over the differences between the old fire trucks and today's larger, better equipped, and air conditioned vehicles. In those days, what we call "dispatcher" was called an "Alarm Operator." This was was a separate fire department classification, and the operators worked 8-hour shifts. "Firefighters worked the alarm board when an operator was on sick-leave or vacation." That all happened at Station 1.

"When I hired on, alarms -- coming from the Police Department -- were radioed to Station 2. Back then, people tended to call the Police Department first for medical emergencies, so a police car would be sent first. In fact, during a stop in the museum's library, the Chief recalled sitting in what was then the communications room talking to his brother who was a policeman working on the same call.

Nancarrow recalls, "We often had to use our own hand tools to work on equipment and apparatus in the fire stations." As chief, he purchased "a box of Sears Craftsman tools" for each fire station. Under his regime, the first window air conditioners were installed.

The Chief was more deliberate as the discussion turned to such matters as volunteer fire departments and restructuring Fire and Police into a Public Safety Format.

Right off, I got the impression that Nancarrow joins those who are dismissive of any attempt to go-volunteer and who are tired of hearing "Troy has one, and its insurance rates are low." The Chief's summary: "Troy is a relatively new community. Instead of hundreds of old buildings, like Royal Oak has, their commercial building are almost all sprinkled. Troy has a first class water supply system, 6-inch mains.

The Chief and I recalled the time, a few years ago, when there weren't sufficient gallons-per-minute coming out of a hydrant at an apartment fire. "Since I retired, Royal Oak has replaced all its 4-inch mains with 6-inch."

I heard an explanation that I hadn't encountered before of the relationship between "voluntary fire department" and "restructuring to Public Safety."

Referring to the City Hall-Union relationships, Nancarrow says "There was tension then as I'm sure there is today." Explaining, he continued, "The city wanted to convert to Public Safety; the unions were opposed; the city used the threat of going voluntary to try to force union acceptance of Public Safety." While Nancarrow was Chief, the city hired a Public Safety Director, who was retained for several years.

Why the opposition to Public Safety?
The fireman in the Chief came out and he didn't hesitate, "Public Safety does not provide as good a service as a dedicated fire department does, in my opinion." . . . "Firefighters have more training than police in such activities as jumping into a trench to help in a rescue, or to climb a ladder for high-rise rescue."

He agrees that firefighter have the psychological advantage when attempting to influence residents and voters. To my question about whether in past drives to influence public opinion, like the successful one to amend the city charter, money come from state or national fire associations, Nancarrow said, "No, it's from their own local union funds."

There's a plus for those who favor any millage increase. Firefighters, who attend all precincts anyway, will offer logistical support.

The Chief had no comment about such specific current matters as one commissioner's direct challenge of police and fire people sitting in commission chambers.

Returning to the life of a firefighter, Nancarrow says, "The camaraderie is strong. We work in larger work-teams than in a 2-man patrol car, for example. And we eat, sleep, and train together"

Today, firefighters are respected and honored as "first responders." In the 1800s, way before the Chief's time: "Firemen had a bad reputation. There were independent gangs who would compete racing to a fire, and stop on the way to fight each other!" The insurance company would pay the firefighter-gang which first got to the site and fought the blaze.

Back to historical chatter.
The Chief is supplying the museum with pictures and documents which will be used to create a Nancarrow family profile to add to the Historical Society's collection of family profiles on display in  the museum library.

Here, Chief Nancarrow identifies himself, the late Roy Pingilley, and Edward Bowden who are pictured in a display of an oxygen inhalator used when he was a sergeant.

About Fire Station #2, now the Historical Society Museum, Nancarrow recalls there were six men per shift, 4 firefighters, a lieutenant, and a sergeant. The station, also referred to as the "Northwood Station," was closed in 1980, "when 18 firefighters were laid off."

With his first wife, Ruth, of 47 years, Chief Nancarrow had two daughters and two sons. about whom he says:

"I have two daughters and two sons. My son Robert is a retired Battalion Chief from the Southfield Fire Department. Ronald Jr. is a Lieutenant on the Bloomfield Twp. Fire Department.

"My daughter Jennifer and her husband, John, live in Birmingham. Deborah lives at home with me in Royal Oak.

"In 1997, I started an ROFD Retirees Breakfast get-together on the first Monday of the month. There are about a dozen "regulars" and many who come from out-state and out-of-state. We average about 15 attendees a month.

"I also mail a newsletter once a year to all Retirees (about 70) keeping them up-to-date on happenings in the Fire Department, as well as changes in Royal Oak. I do this with the help of Jerry Vanconant, a fellow retiree."