Readers Say . . .  2
 
Over the years, topics and reactions both change and remain the same
VersagiVoice will occasionally withhold the name of a reader for cause, but we do not publish "Anonymous" comments which have been received without the sender's identification. NOTE; For some of the earlier reader reactions, the accompanying links may no longer be active.    Previous Comments

04 Aug 2008
I'm leaving on vacation later today, so I won't be covering tonight's CITCOM meeting. Here, I turn over the page to readers thoughts and concerns. Comments began arriving within  minutes of the latest update of VersagiVoice.

§ Concerning the "leaked" memo about restructuring the Royal Oak Police Department . . .
. . . The handful of comments came from either individuals who identified themselves but chose not to be quoted or from persons who provided no identification.

It quickly became obvious that different memos were being confused. . . . Two writers wonder whether commissioners missed a memo which was included in their 21 July 2008 packet because they still aren't competent at working with the electronic format. . . . Sides were taken re Administration vs. CITCOM --  some of the reasons being their like or dislike for individual commissioners or members of city Staff. . . . . One respondent complains that he/she? is tired of "whining" by the Police Department.

A common thread in these messages is expressed in this extract:
"I'm referring to the majority's tendency to spend an extraordinary amount of time and energy on relatively trivial issues, and then complain that the staff does not jump through their hoops quickly enough.  We need people on the commission who promise to do less.  A little humility would help also."
 
Then there are questions of general interest.

Question: What is the procedure for removing a city manager?

Reply: The combination of Tom Hoover's applying for the Florida job and the increasing unfriendly jousting at CITCOM meetings has led Hoover's admirers and his critics to ask about the procedure for removing him.

The City Charter, Chapter Three Section 19, specifies that the City Commission may terminate the City Manager by a majority vote, after providing the manager with written notice, scheduling a hearing, and the like. Although the language does not mandate a super-majority, it does require "the affirmative vote of at least four" commissioners. This protects against a smaller number, though legally a quorum, accomplishing termination.

In Royal Oak, a collective bargaining agreement supersedes the Charter, as explained here by City Attorney Dave Gillam.

As far as the City Manager is concerned, any termination would primarily be governed by the Manager's negotiated employment agreement, which would supersede the Charter in the event of any conflict between the two.  In Tom's case, his contract (which is a public record) clearly states that he is an at-will employee.  A vote of a majority of the City Commission at a public meeting would be required to terminate his employment with the City. (Remember that a public body is prohibited from taking any formal action during a closed session by the Open Meetings Act.)  I would expect any action of this nature to be on a published agenda, but the issue could be added to a published agenda by way of an amendment at the start of a meeting.

Question: How would the vote go if termination got on the agenda?

Reply: Sneaky, sneaky! At the moment, I see three sure votes for termination, two sure votes to keep him, and two swing votes.

Question: VersagiVoice has reported that a thriving downtown is kind of self-contained economically and that there's no solid evidence that neighborhoods benefit from the fact that Royal Oak is an entertainment destination. Detroit sure proves that point. Does it follow that  neighborhoods won't suffer if downtown loses its attraction and fails?

Reply: I don't know. Let me get back to you on that.

Question: Why have you been snooping around about the police department restructuring?

Reply: Just before the controversy erupted, I had held a coffee conversation about youth-focused groups with High School Liaison Officer Al Carter. I needed to know how to refer to him in my report and whether the report had to be modified in any way. I'll publish Officer Carter's observations next week.

§ About City of Detroit problems

Frank: I don't understand why the Detroit papers, and now you, continue to state that Dave Bing is the only business leader to call for Kwame to resign. Keith Crain, who runs one of the largest Detroit-based businesses, was the first business leader to do so, and he continues to do so frequently in his Crain's Detroit Business column, on the influential boards on which he serves and to his friends in the Detroit business community. Full disclosure: I was a VP of Crain Communications from 1989 to 1996. -- Jeanne Towar

§ About International Affairs
(Interesting that two writers cite Pat Buchanan)

Holy cow Frank. I don't expect to agree with everything you write, but your statement "the United States has rarely sought to create an empire" is just plain wrong. The Mexican War and Spanish American War were blatant imperial land grabs, as was the taking of Hawaii.  Today we operate 702 military bases in 40 foreign nations, supported by a global navy.  The sun never sets on American soldiers.  That's empire. We need to get out of the empire business, it costs much more than it brings in. -- Tom Regan

After a bit of follow-up communication, Regan added:

Yes, military bases alone do not make an empire; it also takes the CIA, weapons deals, military training, advisers, massive, often illegal meddling in the internal politics of other nations, and frequent wars.  I say that from a left-wing perspective, but the empire transcends right-left pigeon-holes. Both liberals and conservatives have been very enthusiastic empire-builders, and both McCain and Obama are eager to continue it. I agree completely with right-wingers like Pat Buchanan on this one--the empire is very bad for the United States, it is bleeding us white.  I'd love to see some kind of right-left Anti-Imperial League form again, something that has not really existed since Mark Twain (a staunch anti-imperialist) was alive.

§ From Joe Drew, my grandson in New York City:

Your comment about the end of the American Empire reminded me that I've not told you I finished Buchanan's book. A bit delayed by the trip to Germany, but it was an invigorating read.

In the final chapter, he throws everything in the cupboard at Churchill, even dragging out the Mental Deficiency Act. But it's not just cheap character assassination, it's all designed to show the fellow's poor judgment.

In the last few pages, Buchanan spells out his moral, and I thought you might find these bits interesting:

"America is the last superpower because she stayed out of the world wars until their final acts. And because she stayed out of the alliances and the world wars longer than any other great power, America avoided the fate of the seven other nations that entered the twentieth century as great powers. The British, French, German, Austro-Hungarian, Russian, Ottoman, and Japanese empires are all gone. We alone remain, because we had men who recalled the wisdom of Washington, Jefferson, and John Quincy Adams about avoiding entangling alliances, staying out of European wars, and not going "abroad in search of monsters to destroy."

"As Chamberlain gave a war guarantee to Poland he could not honor, the United States began to hand out NATO war guarantees to six Warsaw Pact nations, the three Baltic republics, and, soon, Ukraine and Georgia. Should a hostile regime come to power in Moscow and reoccupy these nations, we would have to declare war. Yet no matter how much we treasure the newly free Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, their independence is not a vital U.S. interest, and never has been. And the threatened loss of their independence cannot justify war with a nuclear-armed Russia."

 "If two or three of the IOUs we have handed out are called in, the bankruptcy of U.S. foreign policy will be exposed to the world."

==== end of 04 Aug entries ===

About the Downtown vs. Neighborhoods dialogue,
retailer and resident Laura Harrison comments:
As a long time downtown retailer, maybe I have a different perspective as to why I located downtown. When I was looking for a location I looked all over, Berkley, Clawson, strip malls, etc. I chose Royal Oak's downtown for a variety of reasons, among them being square footage, rental price, close to home (2 teenagers at the time), parking (boy, has that changed) and the synergy of being with other retailers. My customer base is more than just Royal Oak residents. A downtown location is the best for such businesses like independent retailers and we just love tolerating the grief from city hall. (NOT!) 

The best thing added lately to the look of the downtown are the hanging flower baskets. 

Context: Last week's VersagiVoice report about the Zoning Board of Appeals consideration of Bordine Nursery's request for a variance criticized, without naming, ZBA members for asking out-of-focus questions. Below, board member Andrew Androff comments on that criticism.

I have continued to read your in-depth observations of city meetings and events and I appreciate how you keep the community abreast of news.  I got a chance to review your latest article and I wanted to respond to your comments regarding the May 8th ZBA meeting. You are absolutely correct in pointing out that the specific issue at hand was whether a transient merchant permit is permitted in an Industrial Zone. In the history of Royal Oak, no transient merchant has applied or been granted that this variance be waived. So we were really exploring un-chartered waters. 

The reason that I would have liked to see the property owner is because he has a vested interest in our city. He is the one who has continued to pay the taxes on that parcel of land and he is the one who will be collecting $40,000 in rent from Bordine for the 60-90 day period. He stood to be the direct beneficiary of the ZBA waiving the industrial zone use variance. I wanted to hear his experience with the property and what it would mean to him. I did not want to merely make a decision based on speculation and the dreary headlines we read in business reviews and local newspapers.   

It is commonly recognized the poor state of commercial and residential real estate and how our local industrial businesses are either evaporating or shifting to international operations. However, as a business owner of a commercial and industrial relocation firm, I still see quite a few industrial companies remain and looking to relocate locally to take advantage of lower lease rates, better location, and more modern facilities. In fact, this week my company is moving an industrial firm from Auburn Hills to Troy. 

As for the question regarding water consumption, it was a separate issue that I inquired about to gain insight for a later conversation that I planned to have with Don Johnson regarding how additional water usage by certain businesses and how it will affect projected future water rates for Royal Oak residents. 

Finally, my 10+ years background in the trucking industry and limited experience on traffic committee provided me insight to safety issues regarding truck routes. Before the meeting, I visited the proposed site on three separate occasions to really study the layout. It would be completely unadvisable for me not to have made a big deal about establishing a designated truck route that would be separate and distanced from the designated parking area for potential customers. Had Bordine representatives not agreed to designate a truck route, I felt there would be a safety issue and I would not have supported a transient merchant to operate in the requested industrial zone.

In the end, this was my first meeting as a voting Zoning Board member and I have much to learn. Tonight, I will be attending ADA training and I am working with the city to receive additional training as it becomes available. I look forward to continuing to serve our city, and I will always welcome any of your criticism that could lead to better decision making and more positive results for our Royal Oak residents and businesses. Your idea about the laser pointer was great and I will send a follow-up email to ZBA board members asking for their consideration. In the meantime, it is evident that it is time to dust off the Master Plan and begin re-engineering the plan to be able to better adapt to today's marketplace. -- Andrew Androff: 21 May 2008

A  former ZBA member comments on the same article.
Your article about the English Garden's/Bordine's debate brings to light another, more important issue with ZBA and the Plan Commission... the need for experienced professionals to address the issues and help maintain the focus of the issues amongst the board. It's frustrating to hear board members bring up issues that have no bearing, "I don't like this or that" for personal preferences vs. the issue of appeal. This frequently happens on both boards where emotion becomes the issue. In a more ideal scenario, each board should have a volunteer or two with an
architectural planning and/or community development background. I know Doug Hedges frequently bites his tongue and would have a lot to say for the best interest of the city if he could. I only wish he could sometimes because he is one of the experienced professionals I'm speaking of. 

After six years of service, this is what I came to learn. I am no longer on the ZBA in part because of these frustrations. Sometimes I miss it, sometimes I don't. -- Brandon Becker -- 21 May 2008

Your list of "cities in financial trouble" is specious. The cities talked about have been on the edge of collapse for years, or decades. And the "solutions" suggested apparently come from the same source. It's rather like asking a stockbroker "should I buy stocks from you?" Of course he's going to sell his "plan" to do away with life as they knew it.
 

Royal Oak isn't that far down (yet). I suspect there are other, more creative ways to at least smooth out the rough ride we are going to have starting with the 2009-2010 budget. Who knows, citizens might even surprise you by voting for a temporary millage increase rather than have city services dismantled. 

Probably not, but maybe. We all need to listen to (boring) budget presentations so we will understand what taxes buy, and what lack of funds will cost us in the long run. -- Brendan Wehrung: April 2008

Internet Filters are the hot item these days (Spring 2008)

Reaction to VersagiVoice's review of the Library Internet flittering dispute began within minutes of updating and continued through gatherings like the South Oakland Business Expo and the Historical Society's Town Hall and the YWCA's Armenian Dinner. Most readers preferred not to be identified should I decide to use their statements. Here's some of what has come in.

"No filters!," shouted a woman passing by in a restaurant.

The American Library Association and legislators both "wish to strip away the local autonomy of the library," and " . . . filters are in good company, librarians have never been perfect either," are statements in a pro-filter position paper submitted by Safe Libraries.
http://webpages.charter.net/tomeboy/filterredux.html

Dan Kleinman, of SafeLibraries.org, also sent an email to "Royal Oak Governmental Leaders" and provided a copy to me. -- FJV

"Solve the problem by getting rid of the computers," came from three or four readers, with one suggesting that the filtered and separate computers for children be retained.

"And, the commissioners are irritated because the Library displayed no interest in validating parking tickets for patrons who use the Farmers Market lot," offered one long-retired city employee who was commenting about institutional animosity between the City and the Library, adding, "They've become so petty that they are blocking the Board's need to fill volunteer vacancies."

"Porn in the library isn't a real problem at this time. Should it ever become a real problem, perhaps we should revisit the filtering option, but it certainly isn't needed now," from a frequent library patron.

"Although the situation is much better, the biggest problem the library and police have is handling the homeless, not the Internet."

"I chatted with my Librarian friend today--who knows firsthand how dicey this whole topic is. She said the filters are so "club fisted" at her library that legitimate sites are blocked again and again. Only one person in the county can override the system--and that one person is often unresponsive.
 
"Last week a woman doing genealogy research-attempted to reach an obituary site and was blocked. She has petitioned for access but has had no response.
 
"My librarian tells me that the filter law was written to protect children from unwittingly being exposed to pornography at libraries. She argues that if parents would just supervise their kids-such a law would be unnecessary."

Much ado about very little
Except for two non-Royal Oak proponents of Internet filters -- one from Midland, one from New Jersey -- VersagiVoice has heard from only anti-filter or neutral citizens. I'm told that the allegedly heavy pro-filter email barrage to CITCOM (1) wasn't that heavy and (2) came from mostly non-Royal Oakers. I was disappointed to see no pro-filter column to contest my laissez-faire opinion in The Daily Tribune. There were a couple of lukewarm anonymous soundoffs, but I saw no signed letters to the editor in any of our local papers.

Does anyone other than the Taliban faction on CITCOM think Royal Oak's Library should put Internet filters on adult computers? -- FJV  

About Library control
 CITCOM turns petty
There's no other word for it.
Not since two mayors ago has a turf war cast CITCOM in such an unseemly light. More than once, previous commissions held up appointments or found ways to remove existing volunteers for clearly personal or political reasons. Appointed Boards & Committees

Today, it is the Library Board that CITCOM seems to be holding hostage. Apparently, CITCOM will not approve appointments to fill Library Board vacancies until or unless the Library installs Internet filters on its adult computers.

That is the only reasonable conclusion after sitting through discussion about filters held during the library's recent board meeting, to which Mayor Jim Ellison carried CITCOM's message to the board. One board member concluded, in essence, "So, if after a review we decide to keep our current policies,  we'll still be butting heads."

Ellison also hinted that at least some commissioners object to one or more of the proposed appointees. That makes it impossible not to infer that those commissioners are unwilling to appoint anyone who they judge might stand up to CITCOM. Well the Repubs and the Dems in the U.S. Senate occasionally hold up appointments for less-than-straightforward reasons, so why not?

In all this, the focus on filters disappears. There is no surge of citizen pressure for filters. . . . All but one of the speakers during Public Comment at the board meeting oppose filters. . . .  Ellison acknowledged that a majority of the perhaps-10 emails he received from residents oppose filters.

So, CITCOM is representing . . . ? -- 02 Apr 08

 

 

The more I think about this library filter topic, the angrier I get!  When do they acknowledge that they are dealing with adults who should be capable of conducting themselves as adults whether at the library or out on the street?  The Morality Police seem to be alive and well in Royal Oak these days. This talk about the schools paying for drug testing of kids (while using my tax dollars that they were so desperate for a couple of years ago) and the idea from the Community Coalition that we should go out and "pretty up" all of the local bars, etc. drives me slightly crazy!! 

CITCOM needs to stop overreacting to this topic. Rather than approach it in an emotional way, they need to use logic, rational thought and some common sense.  Now that I think of it, that would be good advice for them on a regular basis. -- Karen Crawford

Thank you for your work to illuminate the filtering issues surrounding Royal Oak Public Library. Thee is a library web page devoted to the issue: www.ropl.org/filter/ -- Metta Lansdale

Librarian Metta Lansdale was scheduled to be our guest speaker, but Friday night, after hearing from city commissioners, she decided it was in the best interest of the library if she not attend the meeting and speak.  So we did not hear from Ms. Lansdale. I think Ms. Lansdale made the right decision.
 
We had roughly 35 people in attendance. We discussed the issue of library filters for about 30 minutes. At the start of the discussion roughly half the crowd was in favor of filters. At the end of the discussion former Library Board member Rick Wallace proposed a resolution that our club go on record opposing filters on adult computers at the library. The motion passed unanimously.
 
I've noticed that trend a lot on this issue--the knee-jerk reaction of many people (regardless of political persuasion) is "yes, we need filters!"  But, after you rationally discuss the issue, nearly everyone changes their mind and realizes that filters are bad policy. I believe this is why the American Family Association is deliberately whipping up hysteria and attempting to stampede this ordinance through the city commission. Reasoned debate and reflection is their enemy. -- Tom Regan, from a meeting of Royal Oak Area Democratic Club

09 Jan 08
Frank:  I have been working with Bill Allen from the Chamber about forming a group something like the old DROA.  It would be only for the small independent retail businesses, not just downtown but within the entire city.  My idea is to start small with some type of newsletter and quarterly meetings.  We need to band together and have a voice, especially regarding city issues.   

I had a long talk with _______, who is closing in a few days.  And she also is a victim of these overblown developers.  The year before all the construction on Washington, which was her seventh year, was her best year ever.  The next year her income dropped to half, but she was able to manage with going back to work and having her mother run the store.  But the second year of construction did her in.  The Fifth destroyed most of the independents on the west side of Washington, including Dobie's.  Add to that the Michigan economy and you have the perfect storm for independent retailers. 

Right now there are 6 empty storefronts on the west side of Washington and 4 on the east side, between 4th and 7th.  But they are large, over 2,500 sq. ft. and big bucks per square foot.  Rolling all the square footage together there is between 35,000 to 40,000 square feet available.  Huge! 

Now, you see why we so desperately need a Downtown Manager and one with economic development experience.-- Laura Harrison 

07 Dec 07
Yes, yes, yes, we need a downtown manager. And yes, someone is dragging their feet. There is one very qualified person who has applied and if they don't select him, then everyone on the DDA and the city employees on the DDA dole should be flogged with a wet noodle. The Applicant lives in RO, owned the original coffee shop in downtown, and worked for the state EDC under the Engler administration and is a TOTAL RO lover and is downtown all the time. He lives within walking distance of the the downtown.

The hang-up is can he commit enough time to being a "part-time" downtown manager. He can work together with Peggy Goodwin to get the downtown back on the right track. The downtown and the DDA need both of  these talented people. -- Laura Harrison

28 Nov 07
Who needs mass transit? People who are too young to drive, too poor to drive, have a medical condition where they cannot drive, or have suffered natural age-related decline and should not drive. That's a lot of people--every one of us is in one of those categories sooner or later. And don't forget people who simply prefer transit to driving because it is much safer, less stressful, cheaper, and allows free time for reading or resting. We need mass transit in the Detroit area.  I'm very glad that Marie Donigan and the rest are keeping the flame alive. -- Tom Regan

A handful of anti-mass transit readers (in common, describing mass transit as fixed rail) concluded that these recent redundant gatherings are happening in the hope of generating positive publicity for those Lansing legislators under threat of recall.

31 Oct 07
Frank
I just want to call to your attention that on your site in several places you refer to Royal Oak Middle School being previously named Dondero High School and/or George A. Dondero High School when the official name was Royal Oak George A. Dondero High School. I hope you will make the corrections. -- Owen Perkins

31 Oct 07
Frank
Why are you recommending that people hang onto their absentee ballots? Are you anticipating some sort of "midnight letter" or other smear tactic to appear to try to influence the outcome of the election? The campaign is essentially over, the debates and forums are in the book, as it were. I thought it was a very peculiar suggestion on your part to ask absentee voters to hang onto their ballots. What was your reasoning?  -- Name withheld (by VersagiVoice)

Reply
Nothing nefarious about my advice to Absentee Voters. I and some of my friends have had the experience of returning the ballots within a day or two after receiving them, only to learn something that would have changed our vote about a candidate or an issue. The learning came from letters to the editor, attending a Service Club forum, a candidate showing up on the doorstep, taking the time to read an LWV Voters Guide, campaign mailings, talking to others. Muriel took our absentee ballots to City Hall this afternoon. We had decided to wait until after Tuesday's forum. -- Frank V

§ Recall Donigan? She isn't the problem - it's the voters who re-elected her, Kwame, Granholm, Bush and Jim Ellison. Most voters are clueless and would probably do it all over again the same way...you think they are going to do their homework and elect the right people this time?  Hardly.  A recall is wasted energy when the devil is within. -- Biff Slate

§ I hope you change your mind about recalling Marie Donigan, our state representative.  She is an excellent representative, and her "yes" vote on the tax increase was the right thing to do.  No one likes paying taxes, but the alternative was catastrophic cuts in police, firefighting, schools, health care for the old and poor, child protective services, and so on.  The ultimate costs of these service cuts would have been much greater than the few hundred dollars this tax increase will cost me.  I support Marie 100%.  If and when McMillan's people start passing recall petitions you are going to see myself and many others leap to her defense. -- Tom Regan

§ Among reader reactions to the exchange of comments between Commissioners Miller and Drinkwine, in VersagiVoice, is this clarification from City Manager Tom Hoover. Hoover's focus is not on the personal comments which the two commissioners included in their discussion of a couple of issues but on the legitimacy of his decision re the candidates debate requested by a resident. [Context]

First, the issue is one about the appropriateness of the city manager to make a decision on this matter. Second, it is incorrect and misleading for anyone to maintain that I cleared my decision about the proposed candidates’ debate with Mayor Ellison and Commissioner Drinkwine. During separate discussions with each of them about other matters, I mentioned that request, but I had already determined my response. -- Tom Hoover

CONTEXT
 A CITCOM resolution dated 1/18/93 and still in effect reserves the Commission Chambers "for use by the City of Royal Oak for official meetings [emphasis mine] and by the 44th District Court [no longer in City Hall]." The 1993 resolution rescinded a 1973 policy which allowed outside groups to use the chamber -- for a fee. The fee schedule ranged from $17.50, for one hour or less, to $32.50, for more than 4 hours. One of the "whereas" clauses in the 1993 resolution cites the availability of "additional city-owned facilities [which] have become available for meetings of community groups and associations" as one reason for rescinding the 1973 policy.

 

Neither the 1973 nor the 1993 policy assigns any responsibility to the city for mounting non-official events. The 1973 policy required any sponsoring organization to file "a certificate of public liability insurance" and to provide such information as:

  • Estimated number of people attending.

  • Percentage of members of the sponsoring organization who are Royal Oak residents.

  • "A list of the names, address, and signatures [emphasis mine] of those persons 18 years of age or older who are residents of Royal Oak and will serve as co-sponsors for their organization's meeting. A minimum of 5 such co-sponsors is suggested." -- 10 Oct 07

Tom King, first DDA leader, re the 'eternal corner' at 696
Concerning the City Commission looking into a health club for the "eternal corner", possibly you will remember I tried to get the City to consider putting in a MAC club (currently in Lansing and GR). Mac= The Michigan Athletic Club - a very large and first class operation. Unfortunately the idea went nowhere with the powers-that-be. I believe this was in 1988 or thereabouts.  I know several of the administration went to Lansing to see the facility - but I can't recall the exact outcome. In any event I think this (still) might have some real possibilities.  My guess is that the City Commission will screw it up - as usual.

My overall view for this property is as it has always been since they (Dennis Cowan and cohorts) allowed that developer to put in two rows of condos instead of one row of 5 story condos. This action took up almost double the originally anticipated space and makes a multi-story parking deck mandatory - the cost of which is quite high - like $25 to $30,000 per space.  My belief is that any high-density, high-tax property is going to require the City Commission to come up with at LEAST 1/2 of the funding.  But then why shouldn't they?  It was "their" stupidity that the caused the problem in the first place. -- 29 Aug 07

PS - When I said the City would/should come up with half the construction costs - I was speaking of the cost of the parking deck only - not the project itself. -- 05 Sep 07
 

Finance Director Don Johnson comments on last week's news item, boxed below.
You seem to have totally misunderstood the Court Facilities Fund issue.

The  vote was not about taking $1.075 million back or not. It was about  taking it back in a manner that was agreed to by the judges or taking it back in  another manner. Either way, the money is coming back to the general  fund.

As my grand pappy used to say, "It's six of one or a half dozen of the other." -- 29 Aug 07

Say it isn't so
Bad vibes re the budget
City Hall observers talk among themselves, of course. And, knowingly or not, they talk to each other's family, friends, colleagues, and acquaintances. So it is disappointing to hear street talk that CITCOM's 2-5 decision not to transfer 1.075 million dollars immediately to the city's General Fund was based on a desire that Commissioner Stephen Miller not get the credit for the financial windfall. Worse, the idea is floating out there that the 1-plus million dollars will be transferred to the General Fund before the year is out.

Commissioner Mike Andrzejak, who has supported Miller's ongoing budget initiatives, has said of Miller that he needs to develop people skills. To the degree that current street talk reflects reality, others on the commission would seem to need to reinforce their ability to separate issues from personalities.

Sound Off is the most irresponsible form of "journalism". Thank you for taking on this blight upon the Tribune and other papers that use this technique to fill column space. Amazingly what the Tribune prints today is a lot better than what they allowed just a few years ago when ad hominem attacks were the norm. Perhaps if the Tribune provided more stories that were thoroughly researched on subjects that aren't covered elsewhere their readership wouldn't be in free fall.

While I regularly disagree with your opinions, Frank, I think you are filling an important role of government oversight in Royal Oak. As a councilperson for Ferndale and a life long observer of politicians, I know that it is vitally important that citizens be aware of what their elected officials are doing and saying in their positions of public trust. Unfortunately the old media - newspapers, television and radio - feel they can't make money covering news so they turn to personality driven stories. -- T. Scott Galloway, Ferndale

FJV, here: A recent example of what Galloway condemns is a 13-paragraph piece about L. Brooks Patterson by Free Press columnist Brian Dickerson. The issue was Governor Granholm's suggestion to downgrade 200 felonies to misdemeanors. The person was Oakland County Exec Patterson. Eleven of those 13 paragraphs talk about Patterson's style, demeanor, attitude. One paragraph makes a valid comment comparing Michigan's incarceration rate with that of other states and one paragraph suggests "a critical examination of who is being incarcerated and to what ends is a logical place to begin."

About Commissioner Lelito's proposed No Smoking legislation (Clean Indoor Air Ordinance), which VersagiVoice says "stinks," reader reaction ranges from reasoned  to ranting. Here are typical responses.
For a Smoking Ban

Frank, I don't agree with your stand against a smoking ban in parts of Royal Oak. There is nothing more disturbing than having a nice dinner in Royal Oak only to have someone light up a cigarette and spoil the atmosphere. 

Not sure why you're confused about the detriments of second hand smoke either. Can we agree the inhaling of smoke is bad for the actual smoker the first time around?  Yes, we can.  So do you believe the smoker cleanses all the impurities from the smoke prior to its exhalation so it's now safe for second-handers to inhale?  Apparently you do.

Here’s a silly example but it brings my point around. When I have a steak for dinner I don’t lean over to the next table (in the vegetarian section) and force a vegetarian to eat my steak? I am, however, forced to smoke at dinner although I am not a smoker. Yes, I always sit in the non-smoking section of any restaurant, to answer your next question. But as we all know, the non-smoking sections are a farce at best. You can’t keep cigarette smoke contained in some imaginary non-walled square section of a restaurant. It’s smoke, it drifts! 

If it weren’t for the huge amount of money coming into the lawmaker’s war chests from tobacco interests, smoking would have been banned in Michigan many, many, attempts ago. -- Barry Stoey

 Against a Smoking Ban

Good for you Frank! Most people (generally adults) can certainly decide for themselves what they want to do about smoking or being around smokers! Why do those in "power" think they need to legislate everything? I am not a restaurateur - but I don't want to be one when smokers are banned from local establishments. There is "segregation" right now - smokers on one side, and non-smokers on the other. I happen to enjoy sitting with the smokers - they seem to have more fun! -- Laurie Levy

I agree with you about the smoking thing. Just one of the many problems I see with it is how are they going to keep track of which cars are employer-owned or -leased? Or will they just pull smokers over to see who owns it and then give a ticket? And, no, I'm not a smoker either. -- Name withheld

Frank,
I would rather this be name-withheld, as I don't want the anti smoking Nazis to get me. Ronald Reagan was a believer in less government and I know you and I agree. In local government, we don't get the best people to run for office (like yourself) we wind up with, not even the second best but unfortunately they get elected. Some of the smoking comments by the commissioners are ridiculous. Two restaurants in Royal Oak went non-smoking, [names removed]. Both have had declining sales since then. I go to Spargo's and their sales are way up. (I check the parking lot of _____ on the way to Spargo in the morning and give Mark, the owner, a car count) Ironically, few people in Spargo's smoke but at least they can if they want. Casino Windsor went smoke-free earlier this year and by their own self admission, they anticipated a $280 million dollar revenue reduction this year in this new policy. -- Name withheld

About cigarette butts and downtown --
 Skylofter Tom December says

Frank:
Just want to comment on what a great job you are doing in covering the Royal Oak scene.  Your coverage is thorough and has a nice personal flair.  I really appreciate all your hard work and accurate integrity.  I look forward to your next release.

Two comments:
1. Sidewalk dining cigarette butt receptacles. These should be the ones that have a long narrow neck with an opening on the top. They eliminate odor and unsightly butts stuffed in sand. Living at Skylofts I can assure you that seeing trash from Thursday through Saturday from all the street traffic is not pleasant and reduction of cigarette butts would be helpful. 

2. Within two blocks of 5th and Main there are over 20 establishments where our youth can drink to inebriation.  You should witness the uncontrolled rowdiness and property destruction that police cannot respond to. Why add another watering hole?  It is difficult enough to try and attract retailers to our downtown. But at a minimum only higher end restaurants should be considered, ala “Small Plates” and others like Lilly’s, Andiamo’s, Oak Ridge Grill, etc. These are the type of dining venues that will help get better walking demographics and maybe at some point be able to support a little bit better level of retail.

Many of us downtowners have a tendency to look to Birmingham as the standard for a downtown environment but actually if you look south and see what Ferndale has done to attract the independent retailer. On Nine Mile there are less empty storefronts and the condition of their buildings is much better. Some of the store fronts on Main are so decrepit and there is no upgrade required before another loser fast food restaurant temporarily occupies these spaces. 

Tom December, Skylofts, Unit 801, 5th and Main
Coffee Chat with December

Local bloggers agreed with and contested December's comments. Their reactions and two postings by December appear in the Black Finn thread at www.royaloaksoundoff.com.

 

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